Twist: ok. weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. <pulls mike away>
Gmcbride: hehehe
Twist: ahem. Awright folks, tonight we're going to look at the most potent plane in AW.
Twist: There are better dogfighters, there are better runners, but nothing is more savagely
Twist: lethal than the FW. It is _the_ plane to fly.
Twist: Used properly it's my opinion the FW is unparalleled at bagging dweebs or even
Twist: the occasional non dweeb (rare as they are). And, it's a great vulcher. heh.
Twist: The first order of business with the FW as with any plane in AW is to know
Twist: it's oustanding performance characteristics so that you can maximize those to
Twist: your advantage when engaging.
Twist: The FW's can be summarized as guns, speed, maneuverability (NOT necessarily turning)
Twist: guns, toughness, and of course guns.
Twist: did I mention guns?
Twist: Ok. The weaknesses are as follows:
Twist: bad sustained turn rate. Poor climb rate. That's about it.
Twist: Now, the essential problem that most people run into in the FW is that they
Twist: are completely hooked on the idea of sustained turn being the primary performance
Twist: consideration for a fighter. In real life this was definitely not the case, but
Twist: in AW it can be perceived that way. Too many people consider "fight" to mean
Twist: exclusively "dogfight". Just ain't so, although that's what a lot of people do in the arena.
Twist: The Fw has the kind kind of _maneuverability_ required to win "fights", but it
Twist: doesn't have the ability to turn like a bumblebee forever, like the Spit or zeke.
Twist: So if you are primarily what I call a "lift vector" pilot - that is, you only
Twist: know how to put your lift vector on the opponent and pull, you'll have lots of problems.
Twist: There's a few hard and fast rules that will help you keep out of trouble when
Twist: you're learning the FW, and it's probably worth while to go over them first
Twist: before anything else so they stick out in your mind.
Twist: First, keep in mind the FW is not a good low-alt fighter for beginners.
Twist: So take off a clear field with time to climb, pick a rear field if you
Twist: really want to be safe. Because of this you should take a fair amount of fuel,
Twist: around 40-50% (it will last you a looong time in the FW).
Twist: Don't dither over taking less fuel to make you maneuver/climb better, because
Twist: if you depend on that marginal an edge you're not using the plane right anyway.
Twist: While you are learning consider your engagement area to be above 8K or so.
Twist: This is your safety net to get away if you get in trouble - a FW with 8K has
Twist: plenty of alt to use it's excellent evasive ability to leave a fight.
Twist: Much lower than that and you'll get toasted by a Spit or somesuch.
Twist: Now, ideally you will want to engage lower opponents to begin with until you
Twist: get used to maneuvers for close in combat. So 8K is your min, and you should
Twist: think about having a 2-3K cushion over the highest enema as well.
Twist: There is no reason to go to nosebleed alt (unless your enemy are there already) as
Twist: too MUCH alt will probably be more trouble than it's worth.
Twist: Another basic engagement philosophy is to keep your speed HIGH at all times
Twist: unless you have a clear alt advantage over your enemy. High speeds are
Twist: 250kts+. If you are making BnZ passes (we'll get into this later) make it 300kts.
Twist: I'll summarize because they're important when you're learning: 8K minimum,
Twist: start with 2-3K at least on highest opponent, keep speed over 250kts all times.
Twist: Those basic rules apply for any boom and zoom type of operation anyway, but
Twist: they're particularly vital to the FW becuase it if you're not very familiar
Twist: with it it will get you killed fast when you ignore them.
Twist: Now, I mentioned before that the Fw is very maneuverable, but at the same time
Twist: I said it doesn't have a good sustained turn rate. This often confuses people.
Twist: The point is the FW does everything great except that one limited aspect of
Twist: maneuverability which is the turn. It has the best roll rate in AW for instance,
Twist: and it keeps that roll rate very well at high speeds. Further, it doesn't compress
Twist: very much and will respond fairly predictably at any speed above 200kts to stick input.
Twist: Both of these are good characteristics both on attack and on defense, so that's
Twist: why you'll hear me say it has "good maneuverability".
Twist: Also note that in turn rates I always mention sustained turn rate. The FW
Twist: can actually get a great initial turn radius speed, a vital component of
Twist: many attack strategies, the only problem is it can't KEEP turning worth a damn.
Twist: This is what seperates an experienced FW pilot not - experienced ones know
Twist: when and how to use that one shot they get at a good turn, dweebs don't .
Twist: Let's look at that a little more in depth for a minute. Say you are flying
Twist: along in a FW and a Spit is right next to you, you're both going 300kts.
Twist: If you and the spit both roll 90 degrees and do a horizontal bank, it seems
Twist: reasonable that the Spit would have a much lower turn radius because it has a
Twist: much higher turn rate in degrees/sec.
Twist: But in point of fact the FW and Spit will have very close characteristics for
Twist: the first loop or so, because the Spit keeps it's energy so well it keeps going
Twist: much faster than the FW.
Twist: Since spit is going much faster, it covers more distance per sec than the FW,
Twist: making it's turn radius wider, and it then uses it's superior turn rate to make up for
that.
Twist: In point of fact it's often very difficult for a Spit pilot to match a FW
Twist: in an initial turn because the Spit will have to chop throttle hard to get
Twist: anywhere need the speed bleed of the FW. So, if you're in the FW you can
Twist: actually use your major disadvantage (bleeding speed) to your advantage at times.
Twist: As a rule of thumb in the arena, if you decide to try to apply this and you
Twist: haven't gained significant angles on the opponent by the time you're down to
Twist: 200kts, you've probably blown it and you need to get out of dodge quickly.
Twist: <that's where your 8K cushion comes in for instance>
Twist: any questions on any of this so far?
Gmcbride: neg
Twist: Is that a snore I hear?
Robinhood: No questions
:hehehe
Gmcbride: (wake up Rash!)
Rld: go ahead twist
Transmaniakon: (cough):
Twist: somebody give Rash another beer.
:Rash not here. <G>
Twist: anyway, a couple of you are probably wondering how everybody seems to
Twist: be getting kils in low and slow FWs if I'm correct with most of the above stuff.
Twist: Basically, most of them cheat. Not in the sense of hacking a FE or anything,
Twist: but they take advantage of inadequacies in the AW spin model to escape some
Twist: of the limitations of the FW as a plane. The long and short of it is that if
Twist: you practice long enough, you can become "skilled" at deliberately causing a
Twist: spin in a FW and recovering with fair amount of predictability.
Twist: As in, you can recover with a guns solution on your opponent.
Twist: Since a plane in a spin is nearly impossible to hit given our gunnery model
Twist: (hell, planes flying straight and level are nearly impossible to hit most of
Transmaniakon: !
Twist: the time) this can be very effective. But it's not realistic, nor is it based
Twist: on any solid knowledge of ACM. Ga Trans.
Transmaniakon: just call me TK Can u control a spin that well?
Twist: Yes. In certain planes I can drop into a spin and recover exactly on the
Twist: opponents tail. Yak is the worst, FW, 109, Spit all exhibit the characteristic.
Transmaniakon: Is there talk of fix for spins in 1.5?
Twist: Actually it's very likely this will be fixed in a sense with 1.18 (or whatever
Twist: the next release becomes).
Twist: Kesmai isn't particularly happy with unrealistic options being given to the player
Twist: so they're likely to implement tougher spin recover in the next release.
Transmaniakon: Good... spinning on purpose seems pretty cheesy
Twist: That hasn't been set in stone tho, so don't try to hold them to it.
Twist: Spinning is valid if you are playing the game instead of the simulation.
Twist: It is absolutely unnecessary to spin the FW to get lots of kills in it.
Twist: It's a sore subject with a lot of players, and not everybody holds my view.
Twist: I wanted to bring it up merely to say that I'm not going to teach you how to
Twist: do it :-O.
Gmcbride: hehehehe
Shadownyc: hehe
Twist: Also note that when we do get a real force model "spinfighters" will be
Twist: deadfighters in very short order.
Twist: the only other thing I'll mention about spins is how to recover them
Twist: since they are a reality in the FW as with any other plane.
Twist: The standard solution applies: apply rudder opposite the direction of the
Twist: spin, neutral stick at first and try a little jerks opposite the spin direction
Twist: if you have trouble with the rudder. The latter isn't realistic at all btw
Twist: but it works, sigh.
Twist: The FW had unusual spin characteristics which are sort of modelled in AW:
Twist: it tends to flip over on it's back when it spins, which can be sort of
Twist: annoying. But it doesn't effect recovery.
Twist: Interesting to note btw that the rudder action should be REVERSED when you
Twist: are upside down (you should rudder TOWARDS the spin) but AW messes it up
Rld: do you need to chop throttle?
Twist: Not particularly, although you should unflap of course.
Twist: If you leave your flaps down and you take too long to recover, you can get
Twist: severly hosed when you snap out, because you'll be going too fast and
Twist: immediately fall into compression.
Twist: Hey shebop can we take 2 min break? potential dog issue here.
:sure thing.
Gmcbride: hehehehehe
Twist: cc brb
:seventh inning stretch...
Gmcbride: brb too
Gmcbride just exited the teleconference.
:should have the bud light guy doing a commercial or something...
Shadownyc: hehe
Twist: Ok they just mad because they can't kill neighbors cat.
:oh, why not?
Shadownyc: the Cat's winning tis all
Twist: Don't want the blood on my driveway...ill wait until it crosses street.
:hehehe
:okay...where wuz we...
Twist: Bout to get to keeling people.
Twist: Ok, you've got the basic rules of engagement, now what do you do. Well, the
Twist: best thing when you're learning is to find people that are already fighting
Twist: to kill as they'll be easy targets . Until you're very comfortable with
Twist: evading close-ins I don't recommend just going out and finding 1v1 situations.
Twist: Best possible scenario is to find a bunch of stallfighters opposite
Twist: countries all in one dweeby little cloud.
Twist: Mmmmmmmm, yummmy.
Gmcbride: hehehehe
Twist: Now a lot of people when they're learning FW or energy don't pick very good
Twist: approaches to a fight. In the situation above you'll get tempted sometimes to
Twist: fly over the cloud, pick a target, and dive in. This is probably the most
Twist: difficult way to get a shot, although it's the easiest to visualize.
Twist: What you want to do instead is start a shallow dive (remember, 2-3K above your
Twist: highest enemy to begin with until later) and level out when you are about
Twist: 1K or so away the fight. You precede through the fight basically flying
Hotrail just vanished!
Twist: level and pick the target as you approach. After you pass through (300kts)
Twist: either go into a low-G zoom, or roll slightly 10-30 degrees and zoom.
Twist: Ga HR.
Shadownyc: he went
Twist: oh so he did
Twist: ok, a basic trick I learned early on to help when you are doing this is
Twist: to find a set of stallfighters following each other around (not hard to do).
Twist: Now, your eventual target is the guy in the rear position, but what you do
Twist: to help your timing is you follow the guy in the LEAD position of the
Twist: stallfight. Since the guy in the rear is following the one you key off of,
Twist: any manuever your key makes the rear will make as well, but you get some
Twist: extra time to react as maneuvers occur.
Twist: Of course if you get the opportunity and the lead guy gives you a good shot,
Gmcbride: ah hah! 
Twist: just take that. No reason to be picky.
Twist: You'll find if you do this that many times it will seem that fighters just
Twist: magically line up in front of you as you approach the furball. Great fun
Twist: when you've got a mobile FP as far as the guns go.
Gmcbride: hehehhe
Twist: If you keep a shallow dive angle to begin with and don't get harsh on the
Porn: !I would imagine you would have to watch your speed closely around the stallfight
eh?
Twist: stick as you approach 1K out, you should have a full "black out reserve"
Twist: when you get to the furball. Yes Porn, you should be going 300kts or so in
Twist: the approach I describe.
Twist: A black out reserve means that you can pull momentarily high Gs, and you
Twist: should wait to use this until you are right on top of the fight, as a last
Twist: second measure to get a slightly better angle on the victim.
Twist: If you're going 300kts and you pull to black out once, you should still have
Twist: plenty of speed to exit the furball and re-assess as you climb out.
Twist: Don't just sit there and ham the stick around. If you blow the pass, no big
Twist: deal, just climb out and reset for a new one.
Transmaniakon: !
Twist: GA TK.
Transmaniakon: hey twist I gotta run...
Transmaniakon: are u gonna have another class on fw?
Twist: there's one scheduled, I'll be here but don't know how many others will.
Twist: it's on friday.
Transmaniakon: ok cool I will cya then thanks... bye
Twist: ok.
Twist: hey how long is this supposed to go anyway ? heh.
:we've been going till eleven, but 10:30-11 ok
Shadownyc: Till u teach Robinhood to kill drum
Twist: ok.
Robinhood: <G> been there done that
Shadownyc: hehe
Gmcbride: hehehehe, better learn to spin then
Robinhood: cc
Twist: awright, so we've covered what your engagement parameters should be, what
Twist: your approach is, now we'll look at what happens after pass.
Twist: As I mentioned you should use a low-G extension as you leave the furball,
Twist: probably no more than 4Gs, settle down to a 30-45 degree climb max.
Twist: As you do that you should be cycling ALL views. Since you've been busy
Twist: trying to pick targets and firing on your pass, you've been focused elsewhere
Twist: and the situation may have changed since you started the attack.
Twist: The absolute WORST thing you can do is to get all fixated on the guy you
Twist: just made a pass at. he's behind you and (likely) busy, he's not a threat.
Twist: So, look around. If you see somebody higher than you, you have to reassign
Twist: him as the primary threat. There are two things you do with a primary threat:
Twist: kill it or run away it. Your choice, but the point is if somebody has
Twist: gotten higher than you the last pass is completely meaningless now. It's now
Twist: a fight between you and the highest threat.
Twist: If nobody is as high as you are, look for anybody that has a very high
Twist: closure rate to you. If they do, try to figure out what their approach
Twist: angle is. If they're catching up to you at a pursuit angle, then THEY
Twist: are your highest threat. Any closure a rear angle is dangerous, fast
Twist: closure is trouble.
Twist: If neither of these conditions exist, then you're ok. Then and only then
Twist: do you turn your attention back to the furball and your target, assuming
Twist: he's not already dead your first pass. You can just set up again on him
Twist: using the same method and keep working it until you get him.
Twist: In terms of threat assessment the biggest problem new people have is dealing
Twist: with dots that are out of con. You'll just have to get used to trying to
Twist: estimate based on their movement relative to you. If you don't trust your
Twist: ability to do this than follow a simple "higher is danger" rule and extend
Twist: opposite direction any dot co-alt or higher.
Twist: Ok, last topic will cover in the beginners section here is basic evasives.
Twist: This is for when something goes wrong. You get jumped by a Spit you didn't
Twist: see, you dive in directly above the furball (baaad FW pilot! bad!) and
Twist: fall below the altitude of the fight, etc.
Twist: Basically if you've kept your 8K cushion then you will find it very easy
Twist: to avoid most stallfighters with practice. P51s and other FWs are your
Twist: biggest enemy, and if you let more than one of them jump you, you're in big
Twist: trouble (and you didn't pay attention during the threat assement part of the
Twist: lecture).
Gmcbride: hehehhehe
Twist: You'll have to trust me on this one: a FW pilot who is comfortable with
Twist: evasives (ie, he's practiced them) has very little to fear a single
Twist: Spitfire for example. Regardless of the Spitfires altitude.
Twist: In fact a FW can run just about anything except another FW.
Twist: The central reason for this is your incredible turn rate. Use it. Use it
Shadownyc: roll rate
Twist: a lot, at high speeds, several times, and any spitfire will be left in
Twist: the dust (sorry, roll rate is correct)
Twist: You can try this off line - get most planes up to 300kts or so and they
Twist: turn into absolute much. They get slow rolls, and even very small sitck
Twist: er stick deflections cause blackouts.
Twist: Not so with the FW. it's just getting rolling at 300 and can easily maneuver
Twist: at speeds of up to 450kts.
Twist: So, let's say you're jumped by a Spitfire with alt (prolly worst case scenario
Twist: for opposing planes, in stallfighters).
Twist: Immediately you should get your nose pointed down unless you are already
Twist: going 300kts or so. Your target velocity is going to be around 300. Don't
Twist: waste time diving to get above 300 because you'll use alt that you shouldn't
Twist: have to.
Twist: Ok, if the spit is diving well above a real basic trick is to fly
Twist: straight and level, giving him a nice even target, and watch his approach.
Twist: he'll likely get caught up in an "easy kill" and dive hard to catch up with
Twist: you. Wait until he is about 2000-1600 yards, roll on your back, and pull
Twist: opposite his approach direction to start with.
Twist: If he's going real fast just this one maneuver will confound him, because
Twist: he a) can't roll like you can and b) going that speed can't turn at all
Twist: until he dumps a bunch of speed.
Twist: If you saw him going a pretty steady speed on approach, he's probably smart
Twist: and has chopped throttle as he comes in. This is dangerous and implies a s
Twist: stallfighter who actually knows what he's doing.
Twist: If you can recognize this happening, then start a dive as he approaches
Twist: you. This will force him to speed up to catch up with you and get him up
Twist: to the speeds at which you can easily evade him. It's sort of a paradox in
Twist: that the easiest way to avoid a stallfighter is to get him going FAST (the
Twist: trick is you get him going fast the wrong direction).
Twist: Ok, let's say you've done the above and you're doing about 300 with a spit
Twist: behind you and closing (presumably slowly).
Twist: Again you should roll on your back to start, and start a split-S or something
Twist: close to it in terms of angles. The key is to be nose down so you're
Twist: accumulating speed the entire time to fight your bleed tendacies. Remember
Twist: that the Spit will have to be all over his throttle control to match your
Twist: bleed characteristics, giving him one more thing to worry about than you have.
Twist: After you start a split-s (or angle dive), pull about 1/3-1/2 into it at
Twist: a steady 4-5Gs, then do about a quarter roll in any direction and continute
Twist: er continue to pull about 4-5gs. If you're going 300 a pursuing stallfighter
Twist: will have a VERY hard time matching this, because they can't roll well at high
Twist: speeds.
Twist: you may have to repeat with a few rolls, but keep in mind what your eventual
Twist: egress direction should be - you SHOULD know that before you start the
Twist: evasives, in fact you should have it figured before you even engage anybody,
Twist: just in case.
Twist: As you go through your rolls and 4-5G pulls time them so you end up on your
Twist: egress angle. If you pull 2-3 rolls and keep your speed =>300kts, it will
Twist: be a very rare stallfighter than can follow you through to your egress direction.
Twist: Once you are level at 300kts and the Spit is behind you 1600kts with no
Twist: closure or alt, you are home free. No stallfighter can catch the 190 in
Twist: level flight, high speed.
Twist:
Twist: The procedure is largely the same with other FWs or 51s, but you have to
Twist: execute that much better because these planes are better suited to the high
Twist: speed maneuvers you're performing. Practice offline by starting at 10K, going
Twist: any random direction, and pick an egress direction. use the above maneuvers
Twist: but try to pull as close to an absolute 6Gs as you go through the roll/pulls
Twist: as you can, and see how consistently you can do this without blacking out and
Twist: still ending up on the egress route.
Twist: Them's the basics of how to use it, how to attack, and how to evade.
Twist: I'll talk about fancy stuff like hammerheads and flaps on Friday. heh.
:Okay folks, we'll wrap it here - does anyone have any questions before we do...
:And I have an announcement to make before y'all split. <G>
Robinhood: Nope
Gmcbride: hehhehe wass just getting ready to ask about flaps
Robinhood: Great class Twist, thanks.
Porn: Excellent twist
Rld: tnx twist
:Just to let you all know...due to Saturday's warnight...
Shadownyc: good stuff
:Robert Shaw has graciously allowed us to postpone his conference...
Twist: glad folks liked it. We need more good FW fliers. A good plane forHate.
Gmcbride: hehehe rgr
:so the Shaw conference will be held Tuesday night at 9pm instead of this Saturday.
Robinhood: cc Shebop
:That way, we can all go to both. <G>
Shadownyc: cool
Porn: rgr that
Twist: Shaw is always a great speaker (typer) so you should definitely make that.
:Yes, he's done conferences for me before, and they are great
:Thanks, Twist - excellent class.
:Tomorrow night continues with deadduck and energy management...Friday night is the second half of his class...
Rld: tnx Shepbop, didn't mean to make trouble
:You didn't Nor, what makes you think you did? <G>
:Except, you *did* call me Shepbop.
Gmcbride: geez, you all wwould have these things when I working 4-midnite
Gmcbride:
:Aww...sorry...:(
Rld: i whined on the bb
Twist: Isn't that what BBs are for?
:I don't mind whining...not much, anyway. <G>
Twist: That and making fun of dweebs.
:hehehehe
:That what I am there for to listen to the whining
Gmcbride: hehehehe no prob, took vacation for thiss
Robinhood: There are always the logs of the classes
Gmcbride: hehehehehe
Shadownyc: hehehe
Gmcbride: rgr RH, more fun being here tho
:absoltely.
:absolutely even
Robinhood: cc couldn't agree more.
Gmcbride: hehehehe
Porn: There's logs of these classes
:yes, in the help and training database
:Twist, I won;t be here Friday, merchant will moderate for you and keep the log
Gmcbride: thxsss Twissst, gave me some good ideass
Sherlock: dloading using telnet is hard
Porn: Excellent This is the first I stumbled upon
:-- Message sent --
Porn: Lovinging it
:Sherlock, can you use rlogin?
Twist: ok I'll try not to be too hard on him.
:hehehehe
:he can take it
:Porn, that's why you gotta read the BB - keep on top of these things <G>
Sherlock: I have a site where I can use rlogin but that didn't seem to
work either
:rlogin should work
:twist, isn;t there a switch he's got to use for rlogin?
Sherlock: I get loads of characters like }-4
Porn: Roger that
Rld: At work i have to use telnet to get through firewall
Robinhood: See ya'll Friday
:cya Robin
Twist: -8 for binary?
:yeah that be the one
Robinhood just exited the teleconference.
Shadownyc: cya robin
Gmcbride just exited the teleconference.
END LOG



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