Stallfighting Lesson 1

    From Kkraatz: try try again :-)
    From Shaky: HH will keep a list of who is next,...
    From Shaky: please type done when finished with questions or comments
    From Shaky: OK Flightsim is here and will be moderating
    From Flitesim: Sorry folks - couldn't log on for nuthin
    Shaky: First, a brief lecture....
    Samedi just joined this channel!
    Shaky: Stallfighting is what we term...
    Samedi: hi peoples :-)
    Sluggo just joined this channel!
    Shaky: a close in turning fight in AW, most;ly using the planes manuverabilty, verses
    Headhunter (whispered): Being a bit critical, aren't ya? <GDR> :-)
    Shaky: its speed.
    Shaky: For this begginners lecture, feel free to ask ANY question relating to YOU being the stallfighter
    Shaky: pilot, including how to avoid OTHER types of attacks, such as B&Z
    Thrustmaster just joined this channel!
    Shaky: We will be doing this mainly in Question and answer format.
    Shaky: My Handle is Shaky Stick, I am an AWTA instructor and have been flying...
    Headhunter (whispered): 6 minutes of what you see right now.
    Shaky: AW for about 4 years now.
    Shaky: OK...we will now open for questions....who is forst?
    Headhunter: DocDen
    Tsheehy: !
    Docden: OK....
    Shaky: Doc, I think you had a ! up b4 Flightsim got here...GA
    Docden: yep :-)
    Docden: Is stallfighting really just a form of E fighting......
    Docden: i mean...
    Docden: even in what we call a "stallfight"...
    Docden: E management is critical no?......
    Headhunter (whispered): Yes, took a lot for me not to respond. :-)
    Docden: perhaps even more critical than staight B & Z?
    Docden: done!
    Thrustmaster (whispered): right before you got here i mean.
    Shaky: Well, Doc, ya kinda answered that one for me....
    Shaky: ALL fighting is basically E fighting, "stall fighting is no different.....
    Shaky: By E fighting, we mean keeping an energy advantage over your opponent...
    Headhunter (whispered): to start off with.
    Shaky: by eaither keeping a altitude or speed advanyage or both...
    Shaky: this enables you to control the fight....
    Shaky: in Stallfighting, tho, the differences in the fighters energy is usually
    Shaky: management of energy is even MORE important in a stallfight.
    Another reason is because escape is not always an option, in a
    Shaky: stall fi=ght...someone usually dies :-)
    Shaky: done
    Sluggo: !
    Docden: yes... well put
    Headhunter: Tsheehy was next
    Flitesim: Delta, go ahead.
    Tsheehy just joined this channel!
    Flitesim: There you are - it's your turn Delta
    Tsheehy: great thanks.. hehe.. Can you go over the appropriate use of rudders during a stallfight ?
    Shaky: OK Tseehy
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    Shaky: Rudders....
    Flitesim: answer it anyway shaky - seems everyone's connect is gooey tonight. :-)
    Shaky: Rudders in AW are mainly used to "yaw" the plane, that is, point
    Tsheehy: still here , was logged on twice .. ?
    Thrustmaster just vanished!
    Shaky: its nose in a direction OTHER than its direction of flight, thus
    Shaky: creating a slight "angle". In AW, its uses are limited to manuvreing...
    Shaky: in a fight, since AW "autoco-ordinates" rudders for turns....
    Kkraatz: !
    Shaky: now...in a fight....
    Shaky: rudders are usefull for TWO main reasons.....
    Flitesim: -- Message sent only to Kkraatz --
    Shaky: ONE...to line up that plane that is JUST a bit outside...
    Shaky: the aim point...giving you a chance for the shot. In my experience, however...
    Shaky: this does result in a slightly lesser chance to hit...its better to...
    Shaky: line up WITHOUT using rudders, but in a fast moving stallfight, if...
    Shaky: thats all you have, take it...
    Shaky: TWO: rudders DO increase your rate of ROLL...that is...
    Shaky: moving the plane about its long axis by moving the stick right or left...
    Shaky: in most planes, the effect is minimal, but noticable....
    Shaky: in certain p[lanes, notably the P38, the use of rudders to assist roll
    Shaky: rates is almost mandatory, since it rolls so slow normally. done
    Flitesim: sluggo, you're next.
    Sluggo: Ok, regarding rudders still ...
    Tsheehy: how aboout the effectiveness of using opposite rudder to keep the nose up?
    Sluggo: are there any serious drawbacks to using the rudder . . .
    Shaky: I'll finish with Tsheey fisrst...but please use the ! for followups
    Sluggo: to help increase your roll rate ie does it cause you to bleed
    Flitesim: sluggo, hang on a sec...sorry.
    Sluggo: more energy, etc?
    Shaky: Use of opposite rudders can help you keep the nose up in a tight turn, BUT!...
    Shaky: if you need them to do that, you are probably moving so slow that...
    Shaky: you will stall and spin before you can get guns on. In that case, it may be wiser to drop the nose and
    Shaky: build some speed back rather than push a bad shot
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: do you have sluggo's ? shaky?
    Tsheehy: ok thanks, GA sluggo
    Shaky: Sluggo...got your...
    Shaky: ANY use of control surfaces will cause E loss...
    Shaky: thats the way Kesmai models drag, thats the way it in in real life...
    Shaky: the use of rudders, however, reduces Energy only slightly, and...
    Shaky: is not usually noticable. Done
    Flitesim: Otto...you're up.
    Petsku: !
    Kkraatz: OK how useful is a rudder slide, is the hit bubble too big to make...
    Kkraatz: this an effective maneuver? done.
    Shaky: Rudder slide as a defense?
    Kkraatz: yes
    Shaky: Hmmm...not effective at all, IMO, due to the hit bubble.
    Sluggo: !
    Shaky: The hit bubble, for those not aware...
    Shaky: iswhat you have to hit in order to score...
    Shaky: it is NOT limited to the plane shape, rather is an area defined ...
    Shaky: as being a globe 2.5 wingspans diameter about your plane in all directions
    Shaky: done
    Thrusmaster: !
    Flitesim: Zombie - go ahead.
    Shaky: Everyone...when asked to "go ahead" please type a quick "OK" so we know yer there ;)
    Flitesim: he's here - coming from finland...mebbe lagged.
    Grits: hehe
    Sluggo: he's in Finland; could be network delay
    Grits:
    Flitesim: okay, zombie - hold that thought, and we'll do ya next...
    Petsku: How do you survive stall fight in high wing loaded plane against plane with lower wing loading with equal E?
    Flitesim: hehehe
    Petsku: just long queston ,sorry
    Flitesim: no worries...
    Shaky: Zombie...
    Shaky: All things being equal, speed, alt, pilot quality....short answer is...
    Shaky: you don't :-)
    Shaky: Best chances are, however...
    Shaky: keep the speed high...over 225 kts...
    Shaky: reason for this is...
    Shaky: so that plane turning ability is no longer the determining factor in how f
    Shaky: quickly you can manuver....pilot tolerence is...in other words...
    Shaky: keep the figh fast enough so that you black out before the low wing loaded
    Shaky: planes best turn performance is reached.
    Shaky: This usually means a fight that spirals down...
    Shaky: as the high loaded fighter tries to maintian speed and turn at the samme time
    Shaky: because of this, vertical manuvers are the key. Don't just turn flat...keep split..
    Shaky: s'ing and pullin high wingovers. Done
    Flitesim: Sluggo - go ahead.
    Sluggo: OK
    Shaky: Oh...and kill the Spit before the fight gets slow :-).. REALLY done now
    Sluggo: Say i'm in a stallfighter, and I am
    Sluggo: bounced by a higher B&Z plane
    Sluggo: what is a good defense
    Sluggo: other than
    Sluggo: the
    Sluggo: usual break-turn most people seem to employ
    Sluggo: done
    Shaky: OK...defense against a higher B&Zer....
    Shaky: First off...the plane with the higher energy...in this case the B&Zer...
    Shaky: will ALWAYS control the fight...he decides when to attack, when to leave...so...
    Shaky: the stallfighters objective in this case is simple...
    Shaky: BECOME the plane with the better energy!...now...how to do this?...
    Shaky: Fist off...determine exactly what you are up against....
    Shaky: you will gernerally see 2 types of B&Zers in the arena....
    Shaky: the first, and most common, is the "make a pass, extend...make a pass" type,
    Shaky: and is the easiest to defend against...this fighter will dive on you,
    Shaky: try for a shot, the extend out 2-4 thousand yards....
    Shaky: and zoom, then come back. To defend against him...
    Shaky: keep your nose to him...force the head-on shot....
    Shaky: as he dives on your nose, try to "lead turn" him...that is...
    Shaky: break UP and to one side ....
    Shaky: as he comes within 900 yds with the objective off...
    Shaky: finishing your half loop on his six within guns range...
    Sluggo: !
    Shaky: you may get a shot before he pulls out of range...but he WILL pull away from you....
    Shaky: as he takes that LONG extend...use the opportunity to climb a bit to equalize E states...keep this up untill...
    Shaky: you are Co-E enough to force him to turn, starting a stallfight, or untill he leaves....
    Shaky: Now...the SECOND type of B&Zer is much more dangerous...
    Grits just vanished!
    Shaky: you will see him make his pass and pull almost straight vertical...zoominjg almost directly overhead....
    Shaky: his objective is to try to get you to climb after him...which of course you cannot do...
    Shaky: since he is faster and will get higher fast....he wants to get you slow so you cannot manuver...then drop on your head and
    Shaky: finish you off....
    Shaky: this is MUCh harder to defend against...for this guy....
    Shaky: you MUST keep manuvering speed up....somewhere between...
    Shaky: 150 and 225 kts...that way you can quickly break to avoid his attacks...thay will come quickly...
    Shaky: one right after another.....
    Shaky: best moves if you get slow is an "oblique" split S...rolling over, pulling down and to one side...then try to follow him up
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    Shaky: as he zooms for his next show...if he gets greedy, he may...
    Grits:
    Shaky: try to floow you as you split-S....but to do this...
    Shaky: he MUST turn, which slows him down ad works for YOU
    Shaky: Things to remember are to keep speed over 150, and always turn into him
    Shaky: Done
    Sluggo: hehe
    Grits: !
    Docden just exited the teleconference.
    Flitesim: Sluggo - your followup.
    Sluggo: OK
    Sluggo: So assuming it is the B&Zers first pass,
    Sluggo: I do not know if he will extend or zoom immediately,
    Sluggo: so if I pull a hard lead turn and he zooms,
    Sluggo: I am in trouble, right?
    Sluggo: ga
    Shaky: You COULD be....
    Shaky: but remember...this is only the FIRST break for you...you should still
    Shaky: have a decent speed....if not...and he is right over head...
    Shaky: drop the nose IMEDIATLY for speed and break away from him
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: Chumley - you're up. :- )
    Thrusmaster: ok
    Thrusmaster: I have a few, but most have been answered. What is the minimum Range for Guns?
    Thrusmaster: I have seen, and been told MANY different things on this. With a 2.5 wingspan
    Thrusmaster: bubble, I should be getting ALOT more hits.
    Shaky: Guns range, assuming planes are at reletive speed 0, is 650 yds
    Shaky: We all should, Chumly :-)
    Grits: hehe
    Thrusmaster: Could you define Wingload for me?
    Shaky: Wingloading.....I'll give you the "ez speak" answer....
    Shaky: is the amount of the planes weight a given area of wing must support....
    Shaky: what this means is that a LOW wingloaded plane will have to...
    Shaky: support LESS weight on a given area of wing surface than a high wingloded plane....
    Shaky: meaning it is "lighter" on its wings, making it quicker to manuver and able to...
    Shaky: turn at a higher rate...it has "more to spare" since its using less for a given wing area....
    Shaky: on the converse side...
    Shaky: an High loaded plane usually has less drag....
    Shaky: since it has less wing and produces less potential lift at any given moment...
    Shaky: of course...this is only for wings...other factors are involved...witness the WUNDERSpit :-).
    Shaky: done
    Thrusmaster: So its a trade off.
    Shaky: Basically...yes. Think of the classic example....
    Thrusmaster: How do you determine it? Is it Feel? F4 feels "Hevy" while Zeke is Light?
    Shaky: low wingloaded is the Zeke...light, manuverable...nimble, slow....
    Shaky: verses the F4...High wingloaded, fast, turns like a brick
    Thrusmaster: ahh.. Done.
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    Flitesim: Grits - go for it.
    Grits: ok
    Shaky: Yes...a light loaded plane will feel more "nimble", but that is hard to translate to AW since we gort no feedback through
    Grits: i sort of understand it but how does a lag turn work?
    Shaky: or sticks...YET! right, TM dude :-)
    Thrusmaster: <some day>
    Shaky: Ugh..."lag turn" is one of those phrases that has many meanings,...
    Shaky: depending on whose books you read...define further?
    Grits: nah
    Grits: your answered my real quest so i had to ask something :-)
    Shaky: OK...we'll take the meaning that I use...
    Shaky: Lag turn as applied to lag pursuit...
    Shaky: in a turn :-)....
    Grits: yes thats what i was thinking of
    Shaky: When we speak of Lag, lead, and pure....we are basically saying that...
    Shaky: the gunsight is BEHIND , ON or AHEAD of the quarry...
    Shaky: so..what does all this mean?....
    Shaky: it relates to "closure"...or how fast you are closing on a target...
    Shaky: PURE pursuit...putting the gunsight <actually your planes line of flight>...
    Shaky: right ON the enemy will result, given identical speeds, in NO closure...that is...
    Shaky: you will neaither gain nor lose ground on an opponent....
    Grits: <lightbulb goes on>
    Shaky: This is assuming identical speeds, and for now, rates of turn...
    Shaky: ie, at this point...bth planes have the same rate of turn....
    Shaky: thus are pulling the same Gs...upshot is...YOU blackout when he dies...
    Shaky: Now...LAG pursuit....
    Shaky: this means placing the boresight BEHIND the enemy...again...given same
    Shaky: speeds...you will LOSE ground and fall further behind....
    Shaky: this is usefull if you are FASTER than you opponent, because...since you are faster, you are closing...BUT since you are using
    Shaky: lag pursuit, you are closing LESS, giving youii a longer opportunity to...
    Shaky: set up a shot...ALSO, since you are NOT turning as hard...
    Shaky: you are NOT pulling as many Gs, and he blacks out first :-)...
    Shaky: LEAD pursuit...perhaps the MOST useful of the three...
    Shaky: say in a fight, you are co alt, co speed, and he is turining in front of you...
    Shaky: JUST outta guns range...frustrating, no?...well...just put the boresight...
    Shaky: AHEAD of the target as you both turn and you WILL close the range...
    Shaky: BUT...YOU are turning harder and risk blacking out first.
    Shaky: I hope its clear :- )...done
    Grits: !
    Flitesim: Grits, go ahead.
    Grits: ok
    Grits: so a lag roll is just a way to increase your lag ?
    Grits: so to speak
    Grits: done
    Tsheehy: !
    Shaky: Yes....it is a Barrel type roll ...
    Shaky: with your boresight BEHIND the bogie...opening the range and hopefully giving you a better angle for a shot....
    Shaky: remember...the closer you are....the HARDER you have to pull to close and angle to get a shot
    Shaky: done
    Grits: cc
    Flitesim: Delta - go ahead.
    Grits: thanks
    Tsheehy: ok
    Thrusmaster: !
    Tsheehy: in a stallfigter, at what point do you engage your flaps for extra turn rate?
    Shaky: Hmmm...depends on plane....
    Tsheehy: as a last ditch effort or to get an advantage early on?
    Shaky: in a 38, for example most devotees swear by ONE notch...
    Tsheehy: how bout those with a maneuvering flap vs those without?
    Tsheehy: GA
    Shaky: of flaps at all times while stallfighting...with an extra as needed...
    Shaky: these flaps <38 and 51> are called manuvering flaps, because...
    Shaky: the extend only a little bit, increasing lift <and turn> without much drag penalty...other than that...
    Shaky: I use flaps ONLY on two occasions while fighting...
    Shaky: ONE...to get thet extra little "push" to get me over the top on a slow loop...
    Shaky: TWO...when I KNOW that I can get the shot by using them and kill
    the bad guy NOW....
    Shaky: problem with flaps is that they increase drag horribly, although "manuvereing flaps" to a lesser extent, thus slowing you down
    Shaky: and blowing energy...the Spit is the worst for this with...
    Shaky: its ALL UP OR DOWN flaps.....instead of using the flaps to better the turn rate...
    Shaky: at may be better to pull a little up and "cut the corner" on the bad guy, thus preserving some E
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: Chumley - go ahead.
    Thrusmaster: ok
    Tsheehy: great thanks.. gotta log.. appreciate it Shaky and Shebop..
    Flitesim: Sure thing, Delta - g'nite.
    Thrusmaster: You mentioned Angle on gunnery. Do you look for more "Surface Area" to shoot at
    Shaky: CYA Delta...thaks fer coming
    Thrusmaster: or are you looking for something else.
    Tsheehy just exited the teleconference.
    Shaky: I am looking for ONE thing, mainly...
    Shaky: a shot on the enemies dead six o'clock postion from less than 300 yards...
    Shaky: HOWEVER...in a stallfight, I will take any rear quarter shot I can get...I will...
    Shaky: AVOID head on shots...
    Shaky: Why? Well....
    Shaky: while I'm straightening out to take that low percentage head on shot...
    Shaky: the bad guys is still turning, gaining an angle on me so HE can soot me from the back
    Shaky: So, No..I don't look for the "biggest" surface area, that would be from...
    Shaky: straght on top dor directly underneath...thats a 90 degree deflection shot...
    Shaky: and a lower percentage shot than one from dead 6 o'clock.
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: Does anyone else have any questions?
    Thrusmaster: why is the 6 shot better than having all that surface area?
    Headhunter: HitBubble and gunnery modes :-)
    Shaky: A six o'clock shot has several advantages....
    Hotrail: !
    Shaky: some of them "real" some unique to AW...
    Shaky: REAL...the target is moving LESS relative to you than a 90 degree shot,
    Shaky: somplifying tracking and giving a longer shot opportunity...
    Shaky: also...since ou are directly BEHIND your opponent, he has a HELL of a lot of work to do to try to get the FRONT of his plane,
    Shaky: where the guns are, pointed at YOU :-)
    Shaky: in AW...dead 6 and rear quarter shotm, especially close in
    Shaky: are given a substantial lethlity bonus as well.
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: Hotrail, go ahead.
    Thrusmaster: ok.. Done.
    Hotrail: ok
    Hotrail: spiral climb.....
    Hotrail: what planes...How.....when.....why?
    Shaky: Spiral climb is a much ballyhooed tactic useful in ONE specific...
    Headhunter: HUGE quake in japan!
    Shaky: circumstance, when you are turning with your opponent, just out of range, and cam climb faster...
    Shaky: than he....the idea is to sucker him into following you....
    Shaky: thus he stalls out, drops is nose, and you drop on him :-).
    Shaky: ANY plane can do this...given a speed advantage, planes that excel are planes that clibb well...the 109, Cat, F4, Spit
    Shaky: done
    Thrusmaster: !
    Flitesim: Chumley, go ahead.
    Hotrail: how? rudder usage?
    Shaky: No....
    : hang on Chum...
    Shaky: just tuurn and climb
    Shaky: <wanna beat someone doing it to you?>
    Hotrail: I just wanna beat someone:-)
    Shaky: Keep speed up, use lead pursuit, pull the nose up sharply for a qhick 2-3 second shot, drop the nose back down for...
    Kkraatz: hehehehe
    Shaky: speed BEFORE you get close to stalling :-)
    Hotrail: ok...thanks done
    Flitesim: okay, Chumley - now you may go., :-)
    Thrusmaster: ok
    Jacob Allan just switched to this channel!
    Thrusmaster: One Quick one. I have tried to use the Split S a few times, but i have a very
    Headhunter (whispered): it off
    Jacob Allen: Hello, all.
    Jacob Allen: Just for your information:
    Flitesim: Jacob - hold that thought please.
    Jacob Allen: My name is Jacob Walker, and I'm from CRC Customer Support.
    Flitesim: This a formal conference. :-)
    Thrusmaster: hard time determining when i am "Straight Up". How do i do it effectivly?
    Jacob Allen: Sorry.
    Headhunter (whispered): Bridges down like LA Freeways.
    Shaky: What...determine when you are "straight up"
    Shaky: Chum...don't get what yer asking
    Thrusmaster: Basically, the Split S as i have had it described, you pull straight up, Aileron
    Thrusmaster: Roll, and Level.. How do i know when to Roll?
    Shaky: Hmmm....
    Thrusmaster: add ladder bars with break? :-)
    Shaky: well...first off...the Split-S is a DOWNWARD manuver...an "Immelman" is up :-)
    Thrusmaster: ahh... good thing this is 101. :-)
    Shaky: basically....why are you worried about being straight up?....
    Lenin: i have a question.
    Shaky: as long as you can put a little roll into the manuver it makes you hard to track,
    Flitesim: lenin hang in for a sec please.
    Shaky: don't matter whether your nose is 90 degree to eath ot not
    :-)...but...
    Shaky: in AWW...the best way is to use the TM gear to
    Shaky: quicky look left or right...
    Jacob Allan (whispered): Thanks...
    Sluggo: unless your hat switch is broken
    Shaky: when the ground is at 90 degree to the wing, you nose is straight up or down
    Shaky: we now take a brief commercial break...
    Flitesim: Folks - got a CRIS mgmt type here - please listen - go ahead Jacob
    Jacob Allen: For your information:
    Jacob Allen: My name is Jacob Allan, and I'm from CRC Customer Service.
    Jacob Allen: We are having a bit of a problem on the CRIS part of CRCnet now, and just for your information
    Jacob Allen: You can not enter the CRIS system, as of now, without being in "invis" mode...
    Jacob Allen: What this means, is that you can NOT communicate with anyone.
    Jacob Allen: The system may be down later on, and we will try to fix it as soon as possible.
    Jacob Allen: I'm sorry for any confusion it may cause.
    Shaky: Does this mean no page or telegram?
    Jacob Allen: Finally, just a reminder, Customer Service is available 9am-Midnight, 7 dyas a week at 800-745-2747.
    Lenin: does this include multiplayer?
    Jacob Allen: Telegram only, Shaky.
    Flitesim: Thanks, Jacob. Don't pull the plug till we've all gone home, please. :-)
    Jacob Allen: No, Lenin...just the CRIS part of the system.
    Shaky: but conferences still up?
    Jacob Allen: It's quite iscolated to teleconferencing and paging in CRIS part of the system.
    Shaky: ahhh...OK
    Jacob Allen: This part of the system is FINE.
    Redcoat just as long as AW still works :-)
    Jacob Allen: It's the CRIS part of the system...the other teleconference module that is bad.
    Jacob Allen: AW still works.
    Shaky: this on a seperate box, eh?
    Lenin: so no data customer service right?
    Jacob Allen: Yup, Shaky ...
    Jacob Allen: That is correct for now, Lenin, as no one can communicate with Customer Service...
    Jacob Allen: Sorry to inturupt!
    Flitesim: No worries, Jacob - thanks.
    Flitesim: Shaky - back to you. :-)
    Jacob Allen: Just wanted to let you know...
    Jacob Allen: Goodnight!
    Jacob Allan just exited the teleconference.
    Flitesim: He was determined to tell you all that. :-)
    Shaky: OK...now back to our program....
    Shaky: who's our next contestant, Vanna?
    Redcoat !
    Flitesim: Hotrail, Pat! :-)
    Hotrail: DUH!
    Lenin: does anyone know whats wrong with zmodem? (here on cri
    Shaky: C'mon, Rook...don't tell me ya fergot already :-)
    Flitesim: lenin - not now, please. :-)
    Hotrail: fergot what?
    Flitesim: lenin wrong topic too
    Flitesim: You have a question, Hotrail?
    Shaky: Sorry Lenin...we AW types, not nuthin to do with CRIS
    Hotrail: no mam..I think redcoat does tho
    Redcoat: :-)
    Flitesim: Okay, redcoat - go fer it
    Redcoat: ok Doc was talking about a 'sliceback' on Oz today, whats that?
    Shaky: Probably one of Docs own terms...I dunno what he means
    Sluggo: i do
    Shaky: GA then Slug
    Shaky: then I comment :-)
    Sluggo: Sliceback is a split-s that is not purely vertical, ie .
    Sluggo: somewhere between horizontal and straight down
    Sluggo: pitchback is immel that is
    Shaky: Ahhh...thats what I have refferred to as an "Oblique Split-S"
    Sluggo: not straight up. Mr. Ed says those are pretty standard Air Force terms
    Shaky: Or Oblique Immelman
    Redcoat he was talkng about climbing first though
    Shaky: Yes....
    Sluggo: Shaw uses them as well
    Shaky: In ANY type of downward manuver...
    Lenin just vanished!
    Shaky: its a good idea NOT to enter with a lot of spped....
    Shaky: climbig before a sliceback does TWO thing...
    Thrusmaster: !
    Headhunter (whispered): Oh jesus......
    Shaky: bleeds some of that speed, AND enables you you exit the manuver at roughly the same alt you startes it...in essense a rapid way
    Shaky: to sharply change direction
    Shaky: BOTH of these manuvers are to be preferred in a stallfight verses a"straight" immel or split-s,...
    Shaky: since they are both harder to track, and get you a better angle on the opponent
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: Chumley, you're up
    Thrusmaster: Ok
    Thrusmaster: How do you reccomend dropping speed in a long dive?
    Shaky: Why would you want to? To avoid compressability?
    Thrusmaster: exactly... Too many times I lose control when i am coming down on someone.
    Shaky: Best way is to chop throttle...NO plane will compress in a steep dive at
    Shaky: 1/2 throttle
    Thrusmaster: Hmm... Have to play with that one. Should i chop throttle Immeadialty, or
    Shaky: remember though...by chopping that throttle, you are giving up E...
    Thrusmaster: somewhere along the dive? Any "Magic" speed?
    Shaky: So make darn sure there aint no one about with better E
    Shaky: About when...
    Shaky: Well...take it close to max dive speed, then chop...
    Shaky: testing controlabillty with "test" movements of the stick....
    Shaky: to see if the plane still responds....
    Shaky: "magic Speed", that is...how fast is jiust right...
    Shaky: varies with EACH plane....
    Shaky: for example, the Jug compresses at about 350 kts, any faster and your controls lock,
    Pyro just joined this channel!
    Shaky: while the 51 can go 450 or more....how to find out?....
    Shaky: Kesmai publishes no figures on this...best way is to test for yourself
    Shaky: done
    Flitesim: Okay folks - we're gonna wrap this up and continue on Thursday...BTW...
    Thrusmaster: Ok.. DOne.
    Flitesim: I have an announcement before you all split...
    Flitesim: On January 28th at 9pm we'll be having ROBERT SHAW in an RTC here in this forum...
    Headhunter: Air Warrior is free forever?
    Pyro: my thoughts exactly
    Redcoat Yaaaa!
    Shaky: YEEEHAAAA!
    Redcoat I'm in!!
    Flitesim: it's not listed on the schedule - it's an extra added bonus. :-)
    Shaky: IN! IN! IN!
    Redcoat cool God himself
     Sluggo: sweet
    Flitesim: Just so y'all know, in case you miss the note in the forum about it. :-)
    Robinhood:
    Flitesim: Shaky's got an announcement too about Thursday's class
    Petsku: I ll be there
    Shaky: OK...
    Shaky: On thursday....
    Shaky: In addition to whatever people ask for Advanced Stallfighting....
    Shaky: I want to go into multi plane engagements...ie: who to kill first, who to watch, what to look for
    Shaky: CYA all there ! Done
    Flitesim: cool Shaky - thanks alot for tonight and thanks everyone for attending
    Kkraatz: Can't wait
    Sluggo: that sounds good to me
    Redcoat I'll bring ya an apple on Thursday :-)
    Robinhood: Thanks SS
    Redcoat thx
    Shaky: <bows>
    Hotrail: thanks Shaky...Shebop goodnight.
    Kkraatz: thanx
    Pyro: check for razor blades first
    Flitesim: Nite Hotrail
    Redcoat thanks I'm going to kill somehtin now
    Shaky: Thanks for coming...good questions fromall
    Robinhood: Last one to the arena get a C47
    Hotrail just exited the teleconference.
    Flitesim: That'll be me - I have ta clean up the spitballs...
    Thrusmaster: Shaky, Shebop, cant thank you enough. I amy get a kill tgis camp yet. :-)
    Petsku: Thanks Shaky
    Redcoat dont check for em then its no fun
    Flitesim: Chumley - my pleasure. Shaky did all the work. :-)
    -- Message sent --
    Flitesim: Thanks again, Shaky - excellent job.
    END LOG


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