Vulture's Favourite Lectures.

Flitesim:

Shaky:

Flitesim:

Shaky:

Flitesim:

Shaky:

Shadownyc:

Shaky:

Shadownyc:

Shaky: make sure vulchers like me in a FW aint sitting up high waiting fer you to get involved so's we can swoop on yer butt
Shaky: ALWAYS keep an eye on your high six position...make a habit of...
Shaky: scanning that area every 5 seconds or so...
Shaky: Now...before you get into the fight...you wanna set your radar to...
Shaky: enemy bias,,,what that means is the radar will try to show...
Shaky: all enemies first, THEN show freindlies....
Shaky: this is important becauuse you can only get 12 icons...and a big furball is likely...
Shaky: to hav emore planes thatn that....you set by typing <esc> /*re
Shaky: now you have a better chance of seeing the enemy. Now...pick your targets...
Shaky: remember...we are asuming you are STALLFIGHTING...which means once you lock on, you don't let go...
Shaky: unless you HAVE to

Shaky: Try to pick enemies who are busy killing yer fellow countrymen...
Shaky: and set up so you can get on their six quickly....best way to do this...
Thrustmaster: !
Shaky: oddly enough...it to track your fellow countryman...and wait for the enemy to pop up behind him...
Shaky: wait for your buddy to come over the top in a immelman, and the guy chasing him...
Shaky: will follow him right up....get on his six and open up when in range...
Shaky: at this point he will be inverted and slow, easy shot....
Shaky: questions?
Flitesim: Chumley, go ahead.
Shaky: SheBop...questions?
Flitesim: Chumley's up
Shaky: bit of lag here
Flitesim: cc
Thrustmaster: When you mentioned tracking a target, I have been confronted with "Targets of...
Thrustmaster: "oppurtunity". Should i go for the Esay kill, or keep tracking?
Shaky: Thats a judgement call, chum...
Thrustmaster: <done>
Shaky: it depends largly on whether or not you think the guy you STARTED trscking is after you yet...
Shaky: if he is...he may take advantage of your breaking after the easier target...
Shaky: to finish coming around on you....
Shaky: in general, though, in a multi plane fight...
Shaky: kill the target you can get easiest first...
Shaky: while making sure you don't get killed in return
Shaky: if that means switching targets, then make sure yer not being followed or set up
Headhunter just joined this channel!
Shaky: Basic rules in ANY multi plane fight are to kill...
Shaky: who ever is most dangerous to you first, then worry about others
Bohica just joined this channel!
Shaky: help out fellow country men when ya can to keep yerself from being overwhelmed if you end up alone
Shaky: So...who is most dangerous?
Shaky: well..the guy who is about to kill your buddy may be...
Shaky: bcause then the odds get worse for you...BUT...
Shaky: the guy in the spit dropping down on YOU will kill you before odds get bad enough to make a difference...
Shaky: so this just means that fighting in a furbll requires snap jusdgements and looking around a lot...
Shaky: I'd say that in a multi plane fight...about 1/2 my time is spent...
Shaky: looking at the guy I'm tracking, the other 1/2 looking out my...
Shaky: rear view for guys dropping in on me.
Redcoat: !
Tsheehy: !
Shaky: OK...so back to the begginning....lets pick out the most dangerous target...
Shaky: questions?
Flitesim: Redcoat, ga
Redcoat: ok i think this applies....when you are tracking your target,
Redcoat: u say u spend half your time looking at him and half out the back...
Redcoat: the half looking at the target, is regardless opf the view and your position?
Shaky: About that...unless I'm actually firing or in final line up of shot
Shaky: once the guy is in my forward view ALL the time, I'm 90% on him
Shaky: with an occasional flick to back/back up views
Redcoat: so u never look out the front while your target is in another view?>
Shaky: Once the enemy is in a postion to die...KILL HIM...then roll out immediatly
Shaky: Very rarely, Red...I'm looking at him or out the back/back-up views
Redcoat: ok thx
Flitesim: Delta, ga
Tsheehy: ok
Bohica: !
Shaky: reason for roll out is that you ALWAYS assume someone's long up on
ya when yer in a stallfighter
Tsheehy: when appropriate Shaky (dont know what agenda is) could you go over some
Tsheehy: defensive maneuvers? like what to do when you are low and slow in a turning fihgt
Tsheehy: and somebody does swoop down on you?
Shaky: Anythings appropriate as long as its stallfighting
Shaky: hmmm....ok
Shaky: Shaky: So...yer at 1000 ft and someones diving in on ya, eh?
Shaky: well...your in a bad position right off...and he is in a much better one...
Tsheehy: yep, to simplify, assume equivalent E states even..
Shaky: so you want to concentrate on keeping your Energy and making him blow his...
Shaky: eqivelant E staes are much the same...get him to blow his
Shaky: key to this is THINK VERTICAL!
Tsheehy: its tough to force someone to blow energy without blowing it yourself..
Shaky: NEVER turn in a flat plane when someone is dropping on your six...ANY flat plane...
Tsheehy: how do you get him to think he must turn harder, etc..?
Shaky: By any flat plane I mean straight up/down as well...
Shaky: try slicebacks, pitchups, rolling split-s's,barrell rolls...
Headhunter (whispered): sorry, was afk and will be awhile. LK is screamin..... Missed everything since i asked if bad from chum.
Tsheehy: do you mean flat plane to include oblique turns?
Shaky: anything that makes him dump speed to stay with you or give up the shot...
Tsheehy: ahh.. ok
Shaky: Oblique turns ore better than flat breaks or immels/split-s's, BUT...
Shaky: contantly varying the angle of your break will make his solution tougher...
Shaky: when you are slow...many of your breaks will be downward...
Shaky: try rollin over about 135 dg then pulling through...
Shaky: adjusting your angle to come thru the bottom at less than 200 ft off groud....
Shaky: there is NO way a faster enemy can follow you through this...
Tsheehy: how do you decide how hard to pull and when? if you don't pull hard enough
Bohica just exited the teleconference.
Tsheehy: you will die, if you pull too hard, you lose too much E
Shaky: as he breaks off, go ahead and zoom a bit to get altitude back...
Shaky: but as SOON as he turns toward you...get ready to break again
Shaky: Keep you speed over 150 and you'll live, Delta
Shaky: how hard to pull?...well...WATCH then enema..
Tsheehy: and my altitude above 0.. hehe, thanks.. GA
Shaky: if you see him out your rear view moving towards the outside of your turn...
Shaky: then you are beating him and don't have to pull harder
Shaky: if he is NOT moving reletive to you, then you are not beating him....
Shaky: if he is moving to the insude of your turn...he is beating YOU and ya better do something else, quick...
Shaky: now...how to jusdge HIS E stae while this is going on...somple...
Redcoat: !
Shaky: err...simple...look at his VERICAL movement while turning...
Shaky: if <assuming he is matching your turn rate> he is going UP while doing this...
Shaky: his E state is probably higher than yours...he is going a bt vertical <like a hi yo-yo> to keep tracking you...
Shaky: if he is staying level with you, your E staes are probably the same...
Shaky: and its now a straight manuvering contest...
Shaky: if he is BEATING you while staying level...he may be slower than you...hence lower E
Shaky: questions
Thrustmaster: !
Shaky: OK no questions <pout>

Flitesim: Chumley - go ahead
Shaky: back to AHHH! He's behind me!
Shaky: GA Chum
Redcoat: !
Thrustmaster: You said if he was "Beating" you while staying level. Do you mean Turning Inside...
Templark: hi guys
Thrustmaster: you? If so, wouldnt that depend on the optimum turn rate of the plane?
Shaky: It does, Chum, at speed below corner velocity....
Shaky: in any case...whether he is beating your turnrate because he is in a Spit vs your 109...
Shaky: or because he's in a Yak and has slowed down so much...the solution is the same...
Shaky: either way, we're assuming your in his guns range, and have to do something about it...
Shaky: so...lets talk about AOT...or "Angle Off Tail"...
Thrustmaster: So then Cornering (below corner velocity

) can be considered a factor of E?
Thrustmaster:
Shaky: when on defensive, you want to hgive your enemay as bad a shot as possible...
Shaky: that means a hight AOT...Hmmmm
Shaky: not all that sure what ya mean, chum...but, in general...
Shaky: if BITH planes are balow cornering velocity, the better turning plane wins
Thrustmaster: Sorry. Complicating things. <done>
Shaky: although, the slower plane may still turn better...
Shaky: the diffrerence from cornering velocity <Vc> and stall speed is not great enough
Shaky: to cause speed to be a major factor
Shaky: by this I mean that once you drop below Vc, your periously close to stall speed
Shaky: and is you try to get so much slower that a Yak can get artound on
a Spit...you are in danger of stalling and spinning...
Shaky: and cannot go vertical up at all. Is it done? Sure....but...
Templark just exited the teleconference.
Shaky: if the Yak don't get the shot off quick, he will stall and spin out
Shaky: giving a free shot to the Spit
Shaky: Did that answer?
Thrustmaster: yeah. Thanks!
Flitesim: Redcoat, did you have a question?
Shaky: That brings up abnother poit...how many of ya fly the SPpit and get beat by the Yak?
Redcoat: well its kinda dumb but....
Shaky: GA RC
Shaky: No dumb questions here
Redcoat: regarding the rear views, which i find very decieving..
Redcoat: when in a tight turning fite which isbetter to have, the enema in the mirror or the enema in up and back?
Shaky: Best place to have an enema is in front view

....
Flitesim: hehe
Redcoat: do you know what i mean?
Shaky: but...since he is behind ya...no WAY ya want to leave him in your mirror
Redcoat: hehe ya i figured that much

Shaky: thats means he is on your dead 6 o'clock, and you'll see a red screen real soon
Redcoat: but if he is up and vback in tight turn, doesn't that mean he has his nose up on you?
Shaky: keep him off your tail as much as possible
Redcoat: ok thx
Shaky: Yes...but if he is on your six in a tight turn, all he has to do is relax the stick...
Shaky: and he has a nice 4 second track on you...BOOM
Redcoat: ahhh i know that BOOM well

Shaky: lets get back to AOT with that question
Headhunter just vanished!
Shaky: Basically...a enemy RIGHT on your six has an angle of 0 dg AOT...
Shaky: one RIGHT on your nose is 180 dg AOT
Shaky: you want the AOT to be as high as possible when you are defensive...
Headhunter just joined this channel!
Shaky: if he is on your six <0 dg>...get him OFF....
Shaky: Roll and pull...make him roll and pull...get him steady into your...
Shaky: up/back view...work him into up, then up/front, to front
Shaky: never let him sit on your six
Shaky: so...how do we do that?
Shaky: Well...lets take a look at 2 specific instances....
Shaky: in both cases...E states are roughly equal between planes
Shaky: the first...you are in a better turning plane...
Shaky: well...if he aint shooting you...he's dead and just don't know it yet...
Shaky: set up a constant turn where you keep generating more AOT...a steady turn should do this...
Shaky: since you are in the better turning plane...you should eventually get around on him...
Shaky: this turn can be at any angle...from a flat turn to "loop warrior"...
Shadownyc: Have to go...sorry :(
Shadownyc just exited the teleconference.
Shaky: keep and eye on him to make sure the AOT doesn't start to decrease again...
Shaky: if it does...it probably means that he just slowed down to improve his turn rate
Shaky: so...now you want to take advantage of hinm slowing...start to use vertical manuvers...
Shaky: pull up on your turns...make him bleed more energy...
Shaky: eventually he won't be able to go up with youa and will fall off
Shaky: this is how the Spit, in particular, shoud be fought
Shaky: Thre second circumstance....HE is in the better turning plane...
Redcoat: you or him flying it?
Shaky: now you wnat to make him work...
Shaky: now HE is in the Spit <for example>...your in a 109 or Yak or simthing
Shaky: in a steady turn...he can outturn you, so No steady turns in this case
Shaky: make him work...use vertical up and down <swithcbacks and pitchbacks> as much as possible...
Shaky: keep yout plan rolling...use random direction and roll shifts to...
Shaky: keep him from getting a track on you...
Shaky: do this enough and he may start to fall behind...getting more and more off your tail
Shaky: if you generate a 90 dg AOT or more through these manuvers...
Shaky: try a pitchback or switchback <if slow> to get a high anngle shot on him
Thrustmaster: !
Shaky: nothing like gettin pinged to throw off your concentration even more

Shaky: Ques?
Flitesim: Chumley, go ahead
Thrustmaster: ok
Thrustmaster: Can you briefly describe Pitchback and Switchback?
Shaky: Pitchback= an immelman with an angle thrown in

...
Shaky: or an immelman done at othr than straight up
Shaky: switchback...same thing with an Split-s
Thrustmaster: ok. Thanks!
Shaky: Now...in this type of fight...with him behind and in a better turning lpane...
Shaky: given equal pilots, you WILL lose
Shaky: there is really no other way around it
Shaky: a pilot of equal skill will manage to stay with you through all your crazy manuvers
Shaky: but doing this low ya may auger him first

Shaky: secret here is not to get in this position
Shaky: by keeping an eye on whats happening around you...
Shaky: to do this you really must develop a good "scan", keeping an eye on danger spots
Shaky: by the time you see someone 100 yds off your six, your already in serious trouble
Shaky: most aces in this game have flying skill not much better than most others
Shaky: thay have an awareness of whats going on around them that lets them react better, though
Shaky: this is called "Situational Awareness" and will be touched on more...
Shaky: in a later class being taught by someone else

...
Flitesim: hehehe <Ho's class on Tuesday <BG> >
Shaky: but the key is to have an idea of what the other planes around you can do to screw up your flight...
Shaky: for example...
Shaky: back to the multi plane situation....your coming into a fight in a Spit...
Shaky: the fight is eroughly Co-E to you... in that fight you have...
Shaky: for enemies...
Shaky: 1 guy in a FW lurking 10k over yr head...
Shaky: A couple of 109s, Yaks or Spits 2k over you in the turning fight
Shaky: a strallfighter engeged with a fellow countryman at you altitude
Shaky: a stallfighter 3k lower then you just finishing someone off...
Shaky: who is the most dangerous to you here? Who do you kill first?
Shaky: This is not rhetorical

Thrustmaster: !
Shaky: GA chum
Thrustmaster: I would probably go for the guy 3k down. 2 guys at Co Alt are busy, guy at 10k...
Redcoat: !
Thrustmaster: needs some time to get down, guy at 3k just finished fight.. probably low E.
Shaky: OK...Red?
Shaky: Oops sorry Chum..ya done?
Thrustmaster:

Redcoat: i say you get the guy at co-alt, because you'll freee your countryman..
Redcoat: ]and better the odds, and if you dive on the lower one, he may
not ahve low energy and you'll be 5000 instead of 2000 below the
Redcoat: ohter enemas
Redcoat: done
Shaky: Rook? Ya been kinda quiet

Shaky: you too Merch
Hotrail: hehehe..Maker and I are discussing

Merchant: learnin

Hotrail: I worry about High FWs
Shaky: <hates lurkers

>
Maker: !
Shaky: Maker?
Maker: I agree with Redcoat. Freeing yer buddy will help u defend or ofend

against the other baddies
Shaky: Done?
Maker: If he dies yer in doodoo <done>
Shaky: hehe...spoken like a true Blander

Shaky: well...I'd have to say yre all partailly right
Redcoat: there's that politician again

Shaky: the low Stallfighter is prolly easy meat...but...
Shaky: after ya kill him...yer easy meat now

Shaky: Worrying about the high FW is right...he is the most dangerous to you...
Shaky: cause he can kill you fastest...but...
Shaky: ya can't kill him...so just worry about staying outta his way
Shaky: That leaves the ones 3k above ya and the one on yer buddy
Shaky: either of these is a decent choice...
Shaky: the one on yer buddy may be already hurting...
Shaky: so one pass from youmay finish him off...
Shaky: but remember...the other stallfighters are in perfect postion to
wax yer butt if you get into a long fight with the on on yer b
Shaky: buddy...so it looks like a comromise is in order
Shaky: try making a pass on the one on yer buddy, then look for the FW and the 2 that are 3k up
Shaky: chances are, the FW is on his way down, and the others are manuvering for a shot on you...
Shaky: prolly off your wingtip by now <does this sound familar to anyone?>
Merchant: cc :(
Shaky: Ping that guy on yer buddy,,,screw his concentration...
Shaky: then worry seriously about things in this order...
Shaky: avoiding the FW...
Shaky: turn INTO the guys in stallfighters 3k up...
Shaky: take a look at the low guy making sure he is still outta the fight
Shaky: scream for help like a woman!

Flitesim: hey...
Thrustmaster: !
Flitesim: I resemble that remark.
Shaky: yer 5 on 2 here...no time to be quiet

Maker: hehe
Shaky: after that intial pass...
Shaky: if someone get on your six...drag him in front of yer buddy...
Shaky: and WATCH him too...he's prolly trying to do the same thing
Shaky: Both yer buddy and the enema...most important thing...
Maker just exited the teleconference.
Shaky: is NEVER fly straight..always be manuvering
Shaky: ques?
Flitesim: Chumley...go aheadf
Thrustmaster: ok
Thrustmaster: quick one. You said turn Into oncoming nme. I assume to give low % head-on. Are ..
Thrustmaster: Head Ons worth the bullets? Or should i save Ammo.
Shaky: I'd say save the ammo...ya aint fgonna kill 5 bad guys with headons
Shaky: think of this....
Shaky: while he is trying to line up for the head-on...
Shaky: you could be pulling a lead turn on him...presto, you've already got an angles advantage
Shaky: headons in a stallfight are stupid...
Thrustmaster: Oh! I like the Lead Turn.

<done>
Shaky: because they invariably waste the oppotuninty for you to start working onto his six
Shaky: and they suck as a percentage shot
Maker just joined this channel!
Shaky: wecome back maker

Maker: uh, thanks

Shaky: anytime you see someone trying for headon's in a stallfight...
Shaky: you should know you've got the fight 1/2 won already...
Shaky: always concentrate on YOU getting right on HIS six...
Shaky: remember the AOT as we talked anbout it on defensive?...
Shaky: its the opposite if your on the offensive...you WANT to be right on his six...0 dg AOT
Redcoat just exited the teleconference.
Shaky: that is always the shot you should be working for...none other
Shaky: reason for this is twofold...
Shaky: close in shots from dead 6 give a SUBSTANTIAL lethality bonus...3X I think...
Shaky: and if your on his six, his guns aint pointed at YOU
Shaky: OK..any questions on what planes to target in a multi plane fight?
Redcoat just joined this channel!
Shaky: OK...you've heard me say "THINK VERTICAL" a lot
Shaky: do y'all know what I mean by that?
Shaky: <now I'm gonna ask YOU

>
Shaky: Delta?
Tsheehy: zzz, huh?
Shaky: hehe
Tsheehy: it means gain alt at any chance you can get..?
Shaky: Well...not necessarily...although thats certainly on good reason
Shaky: Rook?
Hotrail: aint no rook here

Shaky: hehe...Hotrail then

Hotrail: I do have a question tho
Shaky: GA
Hotrail: u said earlier that when you have someone chasin ya.....
Hotrail: to try pitchbacks.....
Hotrail: I see thios as an easy way to get your butt killed..as it has happened to me a hundred times in the past
Shaky: done?
Hotrail: u really want to go vertical with someone on your six?
Hotrail: done
Merchant: !
Shaky: Ummm...never STRAIGHT vertical...yer right...ugly death
Hotrail: any vertical?
Hotrail: up wards
Shaky: roll about 45-60 deg, then pull....rhen keep rolling...
Shaky: never straight up..NEVER
Hotrail: and the guy will follow u wont he?
Shaky: he prolly will...thats why, as you pull into the pitchback...
Shaky: you keep the roll going...reverse yer roll...pull into a switchback...
Shaky: whatever it takes...you are trying to "shake" him here by varying your manuvers as ...
Shaky: much as possible
Hotrail: ok..I know what you mean..Ill give it a try.Now your question?
Redcoat: getting dumped bye all was GOOD class
Shaky: if you have the speed, a 45 dg pitchback, continuing into a barrel roll or
Redcoat just exited the teleconference.
Shaky: split S will certainly generate a higher AOT
Shaky: OK Hotrail?
Hotrail: Im usually dead before I can pitchback tho

Shaky: Nore that this is when you a re in a WORSE turning plane...
Shaky: co-E and he is behind you...odds are yer gonna take a hit...
Shaky: doesn't mean ya don't have to make him work for it...
Hotrail: several in my case

Shaky: try to get him to pancake or spin out...black out...
Shaky: with you crossing his nose every 5 seconds...he's gonna be nuts trying to get a god shot...
Robinhood: !
Shaky: think about what its like when YOU are chasing someone who you JUST can't seem to get a shot on/.
Shaky: make him feel the same way...think about it...how many tims did yo spin
Shaky: or balck out chasing him?

I've done it too many time too...hehe
Merchant: afk
Hotrail: hehe..spins...ok
Shaky: next?
Flitesim: Robin, go ahead
Robinhood: First re: your question..
Robinhood: I think you mean Think Vertical because Vertical = E whether immediate or potential.
Merchant: bak
Shaky:
Flitesim: what's he win, Don Pardo?
Robinhood:

Robinhood: Free Flag?
Flitesim: a years supply of Creamettes!!
Tsheehy: free connect charges for duration of conference..
Shaky: hehe..one "get out of Yak free" card

Merchant: hehe
Robinhood: I like the Yak
Robinhood:

Merchant: me too

Shaky: so do I....ahhh...a man with taste

Shaky: next, Rob?
Robinhood: Now a question
Robinhood: Everytime I start gaining angles on some fiters I see them spin turn and kill all I worked for.
Merchant: hehe
Shaky: hehe
Shaky: Hate when that happens
Shaky: So...what to do?
Robinhood: cc
Shaky: Well...if ya play it right...he spins=he dies...
Shaky: DON'T try to follow him through the spin
Shaky: Immeiatly, as you see him spin...take a snap shot if ya can...
Shaky: then GO VERTICAL
Shaky: get on top of his butt...when he stops spinning...pull over and drop right on him...
Shaky: remember this...
Shaky: if he spins...he is VERY slow...
Shaky: once he comes out...he MUST hold that sucker steady for a second or he gonna...
Shaky: go round-de-round again
Shaky: THATS your chance...
Shaky: if you pull vertical, or, barring that...break off and come right back around...
Shaky: you should have an excellant shot opportuninty....key is...
Shaky: to be OVER him as he pulls out of the spin...
Shaky: that way...you can drop on his six no matter which way he comes out.
Shaky: OK?
Robinhood: Ok thanks...done
Flitesim: Merch go ahead
Merchant: well... i was just gonna say that by thinkin vertical..
Merchant: u mean hi yoyos when fast to keekp E...
Merchant: and lo when slow to regain rite?
Shaky: <applause>
Flitesim: <looking frantically for another years supply of creamettes>
Shaky: Thats the last point I wanted to make...
Merchant: thats how i fly anyway :0
Shaky: vertical doesn't only mean UP
Shaky: if yer fast think UP...high yo-yo-s, pitch ups/backs
Shaky: if yer slow, think low yo yos, split-s's, switchbacks...
Shaky: key is, USE the vertical plane to cut the corners...
Shaky: if he turns flat, and you go "out of plane", you WILL gain angle on
him, no matter what your relative speeds...
Shaky: if you leave here thinking NOTHING but "THIK VERTICAL", you will
see an improvement...unless ya did it already
Headhunter just joined this channel!
Flitesim: Well, folks - that about wraps this up...any last questions?
Headhunter: Could we get a recap?
Flitesim: shaddup HH.

Tsheehy: no, thanks Shaky, great class.. see ya next time..
Thrustmaster: !
Flitesim: Go ahead, Chumley
Merchant: thnx SS i learned a lot!
Shaky: Yer welcome Merch
Thrustmaster: Shaky, you ever available in Training for some Hands On?
Shaky: I make it to TNT and SAT about 1/2 the time
Hotrail: Good class Shaky..fly straight some will ya

Tsheehy: nite all
Shaky: if I'm there...ask for me

....makes me look good to NB
Thrustmaster: Thanks for the great Class! Ill !
See ya up!
Headhunter just exited the teleconference.
Shaky: Thanks guys...for coming
Flitesim: Thanks Shaky - great class.
Thrustmaster: Will do shaky. Night all!
Merchant: yes it was
Shaky: And thanks for moderating, SheBop
Robinhood: Night
Thrustmaster just exited the teleconference.
Flitesim: my pleasure.

Robinhood just exited the teleconference.
END LOG

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